I highly recommend a reading with Patrick. Now here's where it gets complicated. Libra: November 4 to November 22. An astonishing thing to contemplate is that the ancient Vedic rishis were aware of the fact that the earth changes its tilt or wobbles on its axis. If I were to say who am I in the universe today, it probably would be a LEO ASC. True Sidereal involves less of a struggleit has a more natural flow and sits better. First of all both zodiacs are exactly the same in the sense that there are 12 zodiac signs progressing from Aries to Pisces. And guess what, 5 million years from now, 0 Aries in the tropical zodiac will still be aligned with the March equinox. The main difference that tropical has from the sidereal is a 24-degree discrepancy that affects the former's calculation of the celestial bodies. From this perspective, the friction between the tropical and the sidereal zodiacs comes from a disagreement about the Suns place in the hierarchy relative to other stars. Roughly 2000 years ago, tropical Aries aligned with sidereal Aries, and while ancient astrologers were to some degree aware of precession, they didnt concern themselves with their differences since they were still small in their own time. Tropical (green) and sidereal (orange). This is clearly the better option. Nick Dagan Best is investigating this sort of neo-Babylonian approach by sussing out the exoteric correlations of the synodic cycles of Venus and Mars, with, um, astounding results. Same with all the other predictive stuff. One common perception of tropical vs sidereal is that tropical changes, because it shifts relative to the stars, while sidereal is a fixed frame of reference because its based on the fixed stars. You would be Virgo ascendant, if at the time of your birth, the sign Virgo was rising from above the ground, in a way similar to the rising of he sun. Tropical Leo Suns may be known for having big hair, but not because lions have big bushy manes, but because a lions mane looks visually similar to a radiating Sun, because Leo is the sign ruled by the Sun. Others try to sidestep this entire question by basically giving up on the entire idea that astrology has objective correlations, chalking astrology up to being purely divinatory. e.g. For example, if the Ascendant is 4 degrees Leo, then the 1st house begins at 0 degrees Leo, the 2nd house is calculated as 0 degrees Virgo, the 3rd, 0 degrees Libra, and . Wait, I thought that it is Sidereal that moves and Tropical is fixed? Each sign is divided into 30 degrees, making a total of 360 degrees. All the stars revolve around the galactic center, which is currently around 3 sidereal Sagittarius (Lahiri)/27 tropical Sagittarius. Whats worse is that if it does work for everyone regardless of what zodiac you use, then it helps the astrology skeptics point that astrology isnt a real phenomenon and isnt based on accurate or consistent measurements. Neither would be wrong because its true that we are in a ship in the ocean and that there is an ocean with a ship in it. Required fields are marked *. I cant guarantee I wont make some mistakes here but this is how Im currently thinking about it. I never knew about some interpretation of my natal placements but Patrick described. I was a skeptic of astrology in general because so much of it seems to be arbitraryin other words I dont care. Whilst this isn't a debate of whether one is "better" or "more accurate" than the other, there are some significant differences between the two that should be taken into account. These use side solar calendars or hot solar calendars. , I wish I had an experience like the other people here but mine was lacking. I propose that the reason the northern hemisphere is not arbitrary and instead the proper orientation for our planet insofar as seasonal correlations with the equinoxes and solstices is that the northern hemisphere faces in the direction of the solar systems movement through the galaxy. from now, the individual born on Sep 7 would definitely be Virgo as per the Tropical Zodiac. I love it! Tl, dr: If youre thinking about doing a reading with Patrick, go for it! 100% of his answers to the question Horary are compatible with my life. The tropical zodiac is fundamentally based on the relationship between the Earth and the Sun. So it doesnt matter if you use the sidereal or tropical zodiac because you might as well be divining the skidmarks in a toilet bowl and it would be equally valid as a divinatory tool. On a much longer timeframe, over the course of millennia, the position of stars will have appreciably changed and 0 Aries would no longer be determinable from the constellations because for all practical purposes the constellation of Aries would no longer exist. Jan 8, 2023 - || tropical: virgo libra aquarius ||sidereal: leo virgo capricorn 21 / they-them / life path 5 requests are open Leo Virgo Libra Scorpio Sagittarius Capricorn Aquarius Pisces: Apr 14 May 13 Jun 15 Jul 15 Aug 16 Sep 16 Oct 16 Nov 15 Dec 15 Jan 14 Feb 13 Mar 13: May . Time (local time) h min. DRACONIC: Capricorn Asc Sagittarius Sun, Venus, Mercury, Saturn 11H Whenever the New Moon or the Full Moon is a "Super" one, it is closer to Earth/Gaia than normal which makes it seem . Mark you calendars! That Tropical Virgo to Sidereal Leo switch will never click in my birth chart lmaooo I've been looking at that shit for 10 years now waiting to feel it I see it in so many other Sidereal Leos but never in myself like not even a little bit. So when the astrology skeptic asks The tropical and sidereal zodiacs have drifted about 24 degrees apart. We even celebrate Labor Day when the Sun is in this sign, so Mercury's nocturnal earthy home is in Labora. From the perspective of the sidereal zodiac, the equinoxes and solstices could be considered akin to Nodes or Earth angles in a sense, which gradually shift backward through the constellations. Example Calculations:Tropical Positions Sidereal PositionsAsc: 11 Gemini 23 = 18 TaurusSun: 14 Scorpio 23 = 21 LibraMoon: 10 Virgo 23 = 17 LeoMercury: 28 Libra 23 = 5 LibraVenus: 8 Libra 23 = 15 VirgoMars: 25 Capricorn 23 = 2 CapricornJupiter: 9 Pisces 23 = 16 AquariusSaturn: 24 Aquarius 23 = 1 AquariusNorth Node: 18 Sagittarius 23 = 5 ScorpioSouth Node: 18 Gemini 23 = 5 Taurus(Optional)Uranus: 24 Leo 23 = 1 LeoNeptune: 3 Libra 23 = 10 VirgoPluto: 14 Virgo 23 = 21 Leo. This would make the sidereal zodiac the grander circle of the Other, since the stars are irregularly scattered with chaotic trajectories, making sense with my theory of the sidereal zodiac representing whats archetypally incidental and ephemeral for a particular time and place. We hear the phrase They both work but without a real explanation of how two conflicting zodiacs can work. The ease, accuracy, and nuance of his Zodiacal Releasing. Ancient philosophers such as Ptolemy developed the idea of a cosmic hierarchy. This article explains the astronomical phenomena to which these 'risings' and 'settings' refer (distinct from merely crossing the eastern or western horizon); it examines the various methods by which one can calculate the dates for these phenomena; and it explores the problems . You wont be disappointed! Patrick was professional, funny, and sensitive to the topics of our discussion. More like Exceedingly Slow Stars. The sidereal zodiac is based upon the position of the sun in relation to the star constellations as they appear in the night sky (measured in the early morning when the sun rises). The March equinox is 0 Aries. You certainly would tend to see strong Aries traits in the Vedic chart even though the Sun is not involved. The actual point in space that is Leo 22 in 1951 in the tropical zodiac will be Leo 23 in the tropical Zodiac in 2023. They can both be right because they are about different things., Those new names for the signs are great! I highly recommend Patrick. Ill be keeping this one bookmarked. Nobody uses the sidereal astrology in Europe or America, except for a few researchers on the subject. So I learned physics/metaphysics from Ken Wheeler. The obvious reason why emphasizing one sign is limited is that there are so many potential configurations from which to interpret the same descriptive traits. But if you reference the GIF above, 200,000 years was enough time for Leo to transform from a regal lion into a demented trapezoidal giraffe. Leo's often choose the wrong partner and end up with a broken heart. I walked away from our session with a better sense of who I am as well as my direction in life. A Way To Reconcile the Tropical and Sidereal Zodiacs. Up until the last century or so, before the discoveries of Uranus, Neptune, Pluto and Chiron, the classical rulerships of the signs were used in both systems. Then again, im just a hobbyist so what do I know? helpful insights into the topics I expressed my curiosity about. The Sidereal Zodiac is based on the fixed . In the long term however, the consequence of aligning the sidereal zodiac to a single point is that the sidereal zodiac would no longer be anchored to the stars in constellations but more properly to the galactic axis. "I have read many articles which describe the action of Pluto in tropical Virgo. ever done for myself. Mr. Patrick is a great astrologer. Because the tropical system is a Solar-based system the commonly held opinion is that the tropical system is better at describing the personality and psychological patterns. So that's a plus.). For instance, when you were born on 10th September 1994, your actual and true Sun sign is Leo (sidereal), and not Virgo (tropical). The sidereal zodiac is based on the Earth going around the galaxy, reflecting the archetypally incidental cultural context of eras of life. Basically, I had all the makeups of a Cancer rising. Ken teaches platos divided line and its relationship with all that is manifest or emanation. The whole sign house system With the Whole Signs House system, each house begins at 0 degrees of the sign. I had a reading yesterday with Patrick, and it was one of the most helpful, thorough and on-target readings of my life. I loved your essay/article as Ive been perplexed by the differences in natal charts in the tropical and sidereal. It should be envisioned and understood as a solar zodiac, a construct explicitly derived from the Earth-Sun relationship and distinct from stars. Whether you rotate the base to get your sidereal Vedic chart or the tropical Western the clock still works at least symbolically if not literally because its based on a true fundamental pattern. This is going to be controversial. You can see how the stars nearer to us can appear to travel faster than those further away. The stars (and the constellations) are furthest away and so represent the highest or purest ideals, but our Sun is also a star and is also the one most intimately acquainted with our planet on a geophysical and metaphysical level. The sidereal zodiac is already divided into 27 nakshatras, which are appropriately named after celestial beings. Sidereal astrology uses the visible sky for its zodiac system. 25 Feb 2023 23:31:08 Madison Louise 12/9/21 Madison Louise 12/9/21. All Astrology with a psychological and transpersonal approach is based on the tropical astrology. After all, one sky seems to have worked out quite well thank you very much. The June solstice is 0 Cancer. This is why they are both made up of the exact same zodiac signs: Aries, Taurus, Gemini, Cancer, Leo, Virgo, Libra, Scorpio, Sagittarius, Capricorn, Aquarius and Pisces. These examples are taken from standard astro-data websites and are combined with stock photos showing the subjects' more-or-less natural, resting expression. There are different anayamsa which measure the difference between the beginning of the tropical and sidereal zodiacs. An easy way to do this in your head, if the planet's degrees are less than 23 degrees in any given sign, is to add 7 degrees and go back a sign. Sidereal zodiac sun sign is used in Indian astrology. Due to precession, the zodiacal degrees move. I mean, I think tropical Leo is still going to be tropical Leo even now that Regulus is in tropical Virgo, as just tropical Virgo's now going to have this very specifically lion-like star in it that it hasn't had before. March equinox are compatible with my life to the topics I expressed my about. Construct explicitly derived from the Earth-Sun relationship and distinct from stars here & # x27 ; s where it complicated! 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