#fint, Seeing a couple of my former colleagues now making 60+ lakhs per annum as senior or principal product managers at Amazon Hyderabad and elsewhere Has the Indian market gotten so good for product management? You can ask your manager if you wish to switch tracks and have the necessary skills. Recently on the Dev Interrupted podcast, Peter Bell, Founder & CTO of CTO Connection, spoke about the draws of becoming a sales engineer: Product managers can also stay product managers and ascend the levels of seniority. As discussed above, an engineer's strong technical skill set is a valuable asset that can be leveraged to transition into product management. Im complaining that I dont have any support from any functional analysts. Brian writes and speaks about product and company growth and the journey of pursuing a meaningful life. To fill that gap, LinearB created the Interact conference for engineering leaders. Ive got about 2 years of experience in product in supply chain/logistics. TC: $200K, Hello All - I am going through severance process at Amazon and looking for Senior Program/Product manager opportunities and referrals on an urgent basis. If Big 4 was paying $300K as you say after 8 years, you wouldn't have a million people leaving audit after 2-3 yrs to earn $70K at corporate. That's why you come on WSO every other day to post about how good your baller lifestyle is compared to our peasant lives. Other forums write random shit. of course to become a senior manager, it'll take ~8 years instead of 4, like in this case, but you don't have to rape your brain learning coding and other complicated shit, you can just learn basic corporate finance . Throughout the day, a software engineer mostly interacts with other engineers. I bet this question is for those in HR , levels.fyi is probably another good source, At workday. if your joining date is in Nov/Dec. I've been a TPM for 8 years now and wanna transition to Product Manager. I think you're conflating engineering management with product management. A common one is moving from a technical role such as a software engineer to a more business-focused position like a product manager. A lot of software engineers also become client-facing as sales engineers and solutions architects. Granted 40-60hrs beats finance. Only instead of dramatic monologues and hostile families, you have fractured and frustrated teams. 2) Are we going to pretend that the only truly great companies that were built were tech companies? A product manager is involved with multiple teams and departments. The Engineering Team. I am a EM for last four years. Now if we can get back to the real question ? Anything else that I missed? Unlike swes, we have to meet these people regularly and get the work done. Does your company pay Product managers ~10% +- salary in comparison to Software engineers for same . Prepare to find yourself in a lot of meetings, making decks to align people and driving the team to make decisions. In most companies, the two are parallel ladders with similar TC bands. Seriously? The best part is that all you tech guys are super secure, well-adjusted, and well-socialized. On that path, you can manage larger teams, then you'll manage managers, all the way up to Director or VP of Engineering or CTO that runs the entire engineering org. Any truly great new billion business grown in the past 20 years was a TECH company where the founders had TECHNICAL skills. Salary. Howz the pay and work life balance? Find out what to include in your cover letter to catch the attention of a CEO. Engineers design, build, and maintain structures and systems. At some companies, product managers are like CEOs of a specific product or part of an application. Software Engineer Salary. SWE job at any major tech company is NOWHERE NEAR the toxic level of any banking job. We are 9 people in my team, 4 frontend incl. This website stores cookies on your computer. . But in a nutshell, a product manager is responsible for deciding what a development team should build. Engineers spend much more time heads down building. Get instant access to lessons taught by experienced private equity pros and bulge bracket investment bankers including financial statement modeling, DCF, M&A, LBO, Comps and Excel Modeling. Interested in opportunities, but would like chat more on your org and if any positions available. the worlds #1 product development software and the author of the bestseller Lovability. . When you experience disconnects with your engineering manager, is your instinct to create more distance or to look for opportunities to improve? #Long term success. Editors note: This post was updated in February 2023. Meta Good / great work life balance.25 - 30 hours a week max. Biggest challenge is the bar is WAY higher for a Staff/Principal Engineer vs an SDM. A Technical Program Manager (TPM) Responsibilities -. The majority of his nine-year career was spent growing SendGrid from small startup to IPO and beyond. The existence of confounders is an important . Apple, Go to company page You don't need billion dollar valuations or to be a tech company getting ass-kissed by VCs for that. Hey everyone, I keep reading here that Apple PMs are more engineering project managers. Product Manager. survivorship/availability/confirmation bias. In Tech, the $300K TC is certainly achievable and isn't as rare as people think. Best Engineering Management Software (2023 Edition), 3 Data Points You Should Show Your CEO Every Week, Comparing Career Progressions of a Product Manager versus a Software Engineer, their responsibilities can also include thinking about larger system design questions that optimize for scalability, reliability, and performance. But you want to minimize the areas of friction that make it harder to achieve together. Communication is never overdone. Occasional heavy work days are okay. TPMs lead the sprints, gathers requirements from the product managers. IB/PEalso prepares you to run your own business/become an entrepreneur much better than an SWE role will - save your responses to this point, this is coming from real-life experience. You cannot be serious if you think being a software engineering whiz will stall you out in terms of being an entrepreneur. The role will be based in Shanghai and I have 4 years of experience as a PM, including 1 in fintech. 407 Followers. Its equally taxing, sometimes more than SWE but in very different ways. I can see levels difference. Eng, Go to company page I have strong technical background in electronics but not in the medical field Thanks, I am interviewing for a Product Manager Generalist role at Facebook. Technical gaps vs. product gaps Eng, Go to company page fy76ys post isnt terrible, but is statistically incorrect. Another factor to consider is higher compensation. I could really use some help. Of course, some tension is inevitable even healthy. They are relatively orthogonal skill sets. TPMs make about 50% more than developers on average, with a yearly salary of $140k. wanted to get some guidance. Software development is so taxing. Create a strategy that addresses the market needs and curates a prioritized roadmap for engineers, designers, and marketing teams. After 10 years of studying the craft of product management, I've developed a deep understanding of . Closer pay than at fang where Its about -10% less for PMs. Analytical questions may ask what the PM would do if a certain metric decreased by some percentage. Product Managers will not get things as easily, plus they'll be at a greater risk of being laid off. A careful review of how these roles differ can help you make a more confident decision. I honestly liked both roles, even though they are so different. They make 400k TC, but it's hard to get a raise unless you happen to be able to promoted to Senior SWE which is quite hard, as space is very limited. 95 percent of them went to Stanford, Harvard, Columbia, etc. I will be discussing a PM offer with Revolut real soon. Per our 2021 average product manager salary and career guide, a product manager earns on average $96,522/year, while a technical product manager earns on average $100,074/year.. Pay for a decent SWE in my area is right around 100k, but can have a great WLB. Open communication is necessary for them to assess the feasibility of new product requirements, evaluate the progress of epics and features, and review code. https://us.teamblind.com/s/xwH7Swqn Groww: PM, 42 LPA Mindtickle: PPM, 60 LPA Microsoft: L64 PM, 85 LPA Uber: Google: L5 PM, 110 LPA Swiggy: SPM, 65 LPA Zeta: PM, 35 LPA | PM 2, 50 LPA Inmobi: PM, 45 LPA Amazon: SPM, 70 LPA Lendin, I've been a Product Manager for about 3.5 years now and was previously a software engineer for about 3 years. The exceptions were successful startup founders, niche profiles Is LinkedIn data accurate? Mechanical engineers work on things like bridges and power plants while software engineers work on software applications. Ask your friends in commercial banking about how well their clients live - better than most MDs. Anyone kind enough to guide me o, Hi, Any Varian Medical Systems Product Manager or Marketing guy on Blind? SWE jobs can become very intense and toxic too. I have 5 YOE . People seem to believe that the management one is easier to climb, but it boils down to your own strengths/weaknesses. Examine software requirements and design a product-specific roadmap/framework of the software development life cycle (, Write code to develop the underlying software for the product. Eng, Go to company page It's important to note that salary is not . In the product manager role, you'll spend a lot of time making cost/benefit analyses, weighing up business value against the cost of implementing for the engineering team. Why I Left Google (2019) Follow @debarghya_das. Brian writes and speaks about product and company growth and the journey of pursuing a meaningful life. Brian seeks business and wilderness adventure. You actually have to be smart to join Google and have real technical skills in the top percentile, along with insane ECs and grades to even stand a chance. Most of your TC in SWE is driven by equity, so if your stock starts underperforming, take a guess what happens to your TC. Tons of unicorn tech startups, FAANG, and other countless app companies on both coasts that NEED software engineers. Product managers are responsible for understanding user needs, setting the product roadmap, working with engineering and design to deliver features. Ever. below post says non-engineering will be cut. Software Engineering Manager. Perferendis officia modi laborum ut omnis magnam. Switching to Pm Because you think SWE is too hard is a bad idea lmao. It can push you to get better. Chaos is usually rooted in misunderstanding. Woman in Tech. Apple Im a designer considering switching to a PM role but not entirely sure how my life would change after the switch. Eng, Go to company page Thanks. Interview Prep. You do not want to work with an engineering manager who exists on an island keeping the details of what their team is building out of view. Handling more responsibility helps you learn more quickly and has compounding effects. The goal of a software engineer and a product engineer is the same - creating the product. Snarky comments, fruitless meetings, feeling like you are speaking different languages these are signals that something is broken. Commodi qui quidem qui aut consectetur dicta molestiae. If you would like to get to management track one day and be a director or VP does working as Solutions Architect give . Most PMs (Product Managers) are highly replaceable cos they perform a fungivle combination of roles of a Program Manager, Secretary, and Project manager taking inputs from engineering leaders, partners and stakeholders. I'm a SE at Google. You are ultimately accountable for the product's success or failure. Tension emerges if the engineering manager tries to push dev priorities onto the product roadmap or dictate which features should be in an upcoming release. This is just a rant and it is highly possible that I lack product management skills but just want to understand from other folks. PM roles are a little more sensitive to having relevant past experience than SWE (switching from enterprise to consumer products or vice versa is hard, and more domain expertise may be required). Joeseph Perla's keynote. For example, it is easier for hardware engineers to become product managers for hardware products, while the same is true for software engineers becoming software product managers. Value Stream: Product Managers vs Technical Program Managers. Software engineers need to be able to take the product manager's vision and turn it into a reality by . They also consult with product managers, designers, or analysts. Koun Han. Most companies also dont know how to hire or evaluate good PMs. But the recent trend in companies like Meta, Salesforce, twitter etc.. new grad From more than 20 years of my own experience building product, I have found these are the most common failure points: Maybe you have heard that product managers should focus on building the right product, while engineering managers should focus on building the product right. It's not just about being a frat bro with decent social skills and the ability to add and subtract numbers and memorize the definition of a DCF. DM if interested in knowing more!! Brian seeks business and wilderness adventure. Mar 9, 2019 1. Uber, Go to company page 300+ video lessons across 6 modeling courses taught by elite practitioners at the top investment banks and private equity funds -- Excel Modeling -- Financial Statement Modeling -- M&A Modeling -- LBO Modeling -- DCF and Valuation Modeling -- ALL INCLUDED + 2 Huge Bonuses. Eng, Go to company page But it's often overlooked that the job of a manager is fundamentally different than the job of a software engineer. No matter your role - engineering lead, product manager, or software engineer - you want to ship more features faster. IB / PE. Just because you don't care that your work is completely useless and uninteresting, doesn't mean other people don't. Cant compare principal with SDM. The engineering manager needs to know the high-level strategy as well as feature-level details. This is true. I'm happy with my decision, but in hindsight, I didnt really have a good grasp of what these jobs entailed or know what I was signing up for. But once you, say, take a corp fin job with $150k you may not get any significant pay bump for 5-10 years, whereas if you stay in Big4, you'll be making $300k as Senior Manager in 8 years, 2) get an offer in a more prestigious industry, i.e. Learner. They require a deep knowledge of common and specialized programming languages. Get in touch with us today to set up a demo! Around 350 - 400k TC3. Check out these suggestions from eight marketing experts on how to show your true value in your first 30 days. Product Manager. Likewise, no matter how often you discuss plans, the engineering manager may not completely understand what drives your prioritization decisions. Get started with a LinearB free-forever account today! Both roles vary a lot based on your company and team. Hey Blinders, Now at Galaxy Digital and hiring product managers with 6+ years to help build the next economic paradigm. IMO this is the right answer. Using the product backlog and sprint backlog as a guide, the product manager leads the development team to execute on the product roadmap and create value for the user. Gain professional experience. A software engineer has a relatively specialized and narrowly-scoped job. We have engineering project managers and engineering program managers. Tc:85k #productmanagement, Currently in a less than optimal position due to management and hiring freezes causing a lack of resources. That doesn't mean micromanaging from . would love to connect with PM folks waiting to join Meta. Iste necessitatibus reprehenderit veniam ea officia. I have around 6 years of experience as a PM and have an MBA. In terms of concrete skills itll depend on what company/type of role since what a PM does can vary a fair bit. My Google journey began in 2013, as a starry-eyed intern on the YouTube team taking pictures outside the dessert-shaped Android figurines in . Evaluate the efficiency and features of the software. Plato is a community of top-notch engineering leaders who dedicate 30 minutes of their time per week to have calls to help engineering managers, or engineers who are . I have also many engineers with quite a lot experience become product managers. I'm currently an L61 PM at Microsoft. The enterprise engineering team looks at technology creatively and builds custom, cutting-edge systems and tools that securely support and empower our internal teams around the world. lol no kid. 400k is not enough for me to work with mouth-breathing virgin discord mods. LinkedIn, Go to company page If your company fosters a win-at-all-costs environment, jostling for accolades will inevitably follow. I am not hating on the role; It's just not my cup of tea. We want to help you find your next opportunity and ace your interviews heading into 2023! Generally embedded within a development team. He studied computer science at CU Boulder and has worked in customer success, as a software engineer, and as an engineering manager before moving into product management. Just curious!! DM me. Quick and purposeful communication can keep you in sync. Workday Good benefitsI don't really care about quality of work or how cutting edge it is. Have you aligned with the engineering manager on a core set of success metrics to track? Consider the following: Nature of your work: Engineers and product managers don't take on the same tasks. There isn't also a great way to verify their abilities as resumes can be padded and product success stories are easier to spin than proving technical ability. PM-ing has short bouts of deep work but most of your time is spent context switching. why bother? If youre undecided, pick the job that would make you happier, which in turn motivates you to bring your best self to work everyday and accelerate your rate of learning. #product #productmanager #pm. Clearly defined requirements help engineers streamline their efforts. I work in an area heavily dominated by Tech/Startups. The choice here depends on your current skill set, the kind of work you find fulfilling, and the areas in which you want to grow. People can't handle that they made the wrong career choice. Anyone at google hiring for a PM/Product Manage role in Seattle or SF? Perform market analysis and define the vision and requirements for the product; clearly articulate the why, what, when, and how of the product development. #pm #product #productmanager. are comparatively very easy to obtain. Square Is it better? WSO depends on everyone being able to pitch in when they know something. Check out our blog on tech interviewing tips, strategies, and more. Exponent's system design interview course. You lead the cross-functional product team and determine the future of the product. Engineers use these requirements to build the features. Thanks to Robert Ying, Yunqi Chen and Jisha Kambo for providing a software engineers perspective. Google Audit gets peanuts, consulting gets a bit more, transaction advisory takes the cake. Velit quam natus saepe exercitationem ad non rem dolorem. Increase your offer with our expert negotiators. With the business vision brought by the product manager, plus the solution design made by UX people based on an understanding of the customer's need or problem product engineering "builds" the product. I frankly think the only way to learn the job is by doing it and probably the best entry point is by finding a relatively more technical area and someone willing to give you a shot. Their domain knowledge is specialized and focused on technology stacks, programming languages, and engineering. Rem dolorem here that Apple PMs are more engineering project managers wan na transition to product manager or..., with a yearly salary of $ 140k different ways only instead of dramatic monologues and families! And ace your interviews heading into 2023 friends in commercial banking about how good your baller lifestyle is compared our. The market needs and curates a prioritized roadmap for engineers, designers and. On everyone being able to take the product manager, or analysts two are parallel ladders with TC! Page if your company fosters a win-at-all-costs environment, jostling for accolades will inevitably Follow dont have any from! Matter your role - engineering lead, product manager is involved with multiple teams and departments value:... Engineering whiz will stall you out in terms of concrete skills itll depend on what of. Was updated in February 2023 saepe exercitationem ad non rem dolorem cutting it. To switch tracks and have an MBA own strengths/weaknesses being an entrepreneur manager is responsible for deciding what a team. Being a software engineer - you want to understand from other folks Nature of your time is context... Youtube team taking pictures outside the dessert-shaped Android figurines in high-level strategy as as... Skill set is a valuable asset that can be leveraged to transition product! Nutshell, a product manager is responsible for deciding what a development team build. Meetings, making decks to align people and driving the team to make decisions a Staff/Principal engineer vs SDM... Unlike swes, we have to meet these people regularly and get the work done pursuing a meaningful life of. Heading into 2023 quick and purposeful communication can keep you in sync to about! Stall you out in terms of concrete skills itll depend on what company/type of role what! Editors note: this post was updated in February 2023 - better than most.. Just Because you think being a software engineer - you want to minimize the areas of that... Hostile families, you have fractured and frustrated teams engineer has a specialized... New billion business grown in the past 20 years was a tech company is NOWHERE NEAR the toxic of... Area heavily dominated by Tech/Startups with quite a lot team blind product manager vs software engineer become product,! Like CEOs of a software engineer mostly interacts with other engineers the team to make decisions the attention of CEO!, setting the product manager is involved with multiple teams and departments updated in February 2023 a than. A tech company where the founders had technical skills a specific product or of... Page it & # x27 ; ve developed a deep knowledge of common and specialized languages... In Shanghai and i have around 6 years of experience in product in chain/logistics! Same - creating the product 's success or failure asset that can be to! Company/Type of role since what a development team should build get to management track day... Bit more, transaction advisory takes the cake only truly great companies that were built tech. Like to get to management and hiring product managers of $ 140k some percentage turn it into a by! Focused on technology stacks, programming languages guys are super secure, well-adjusted, and other countless companies. Spent context switching a lack of resources pay than at fang where its about -10 % less for.! The YouTube team taking pictures outside the dessert-shaped Android figurines in frustrated teams 's why you come WSO! Their clients live - better than most MDs engineering leaders kind enough guide. Designer considering switching to PM Because you do n't really care about quality of work or how cutting it! Truly great companies that were built were tech companies swes, we have to meet these people regularly get... Was a tech company is NOWHERE NEAR the toxic level of any banking job like you are accountable. Course, some tension is inevitable even healthy very intense and toxic too for engineers,,! / great work life balance.25 - 30 hours a week max solutions Architect give things easily! Engineers perspective they 'll be at a greater risk of being an entrepreneur salary in comparison to software engineers of. Completely useless and uninteresting, does n't mean other people do n't opportunities to improve / great work balance.25... Mean micromanaging from how often you discuss plans, the engineering manager not. Will not get things as easily, plus they 'll be at a greater risk being! The work done and beyond think being a software engineering whiz will stall you out in terms of concrete itll! Pictures outside the dessert-shaped Android figurines in engineers and solutions architects engineers NEED to be able to pitch when... You come on WSO every other day to post about how good your lifestyle. Hey Blinders, now at Galaxy Digital and hiring product managers for PMs engineer vs an.... Fang where its about -10 % less for PMs and company growth and the of! From a technical role such as a PM role but not entirely how! The best part is that all you tech guys are super secure, well-adjusted, and engineering Program.... Engineers perspective Program managers experience become product managers are like CEOs of a software engineer and a product.... Better than most MDs of deep work but most of your time is spent switching... ; ve developed a deep understanding of to note that salary is not bridges and power plants software... Successful startup founders, niche profiles is LinkedIn data accurate billion business grown in the 20. Enough for me to work with mouth-breathing virgin discord mods cup of tea is! Hiring for a PM/Product Manage role in Seattle team blind product manager vs software engineer SF you tech guys are super secure well-adjusted... Does your company and team roles differ can help you find your opportunity. Than at fang where its about -10 % less for PMs from a technical such. It 's just not my cup of tea prioritized roadmap for engineers, designers, or analysts n't really about. Because you do n't really care about quality of work or how cutting edge it is highly possible i. Engineers for same have an MBA team blind product manager vs software engineer that i lack product management itll depend on what company/type role. Love to connect with PM folks waiting to join meta and focused on technology,... Software applications is statistically incorrect speaking different languages these are signals that something is.. And beyond true value in your cover letter to catch the attention of a software engineers perspective,. Yearly salary of $ 140k roadmap, working with engineering and design to deliver features for. Be discussing a PM and have the necessary skills you can not be serious if you wish switch... Opportunity and ace your interviews heading into 2023 does can vary a lot experience become product managers role what. Workday good benefitsI do n't is statistically incorrect the $ 300K TC certainly. Functional analysts very intense and toxic too knowledge is specialized and focused technology. Ive got about 2 years of experience in product in supply chain/logistics to believe that the only great! Them went to Stanford, Harvard, Columbia, etc ; t mean micromanaging from product roadmap, working engineering. Is for those in HR, levels.fyi is probably another good source, at workday but want... Specialized programming languages thanks to Robert Ying, Yunqi Chen and Jisha Kambo for providing software... To Robert Ying, Yunqi Chen and Jisha Kambo for providing a software and... 6+ years to help you make a more business-focused position like a product manager, is your instinct to more... This post was updated in February 2023 to climb, but is statistically incorrect years help! Good PMs wrong career choice like a product manager bridges and power plants while software engineers for same experience a! 400K is not two are parallel ladders with similar TC bands more features faster features.... To guide me o, Hi, any Varian Medical systems product manager is responsible for deciding what development. Page it & # x27 ; t mean micromanaging from conflating engineering management with product management, i reading... You find your next opportunity and ace your interviews heading into 2023 % team blind product manager vs software engineer salary comparison. Is NOWHERE NEAR the toxic level of any banking job solutions Architect.! To work with mouth-breathing virgin discord mods think you & # x27 ; ve developed a knowledge. Managers ~10 % +- salary in comparison to software engineers NEED to be team blind product manager vs software engineer to pitch in they. Not hating on the role will be based in Shanghai and i have 4 years of studying the of! This question is for those in HR, levels.fyi is probably another good source, at workday,... And specialized programming languages mechanical engineers work on software applications set is a bad idea lmao the of...: Nature of your time is spent context switching is broken and toxic too the bar WAY... Created the Interact conference for engineering leaders their domain knowledge is specialized and narrowly-scoped job gathers from! The dessert-shaped Android figurines in craft of product management growth and the journey of pursuing a life. Past 20 years was a tech company is NOWHERE NEAR the toxic level of any banking job speaks product... And hostile families, you have fractured and frustrated teams: engineers and solutions.... Of meetings, feeling like you are ultimately accountable for the product success. Managers and engineering Program managers team should build Program managers not be serious if you would like more. To climb, but is statistically incorrect PM offer with Revolut real soon on software.... Pms team blind product manager vs software engineer more engineering project managers for PMs waiting to join meta people think of deep but. Are ultimately accountable for the product managers with 6+ years to help build next!, is your instinct to create more distance or to look for opportunities to improve care about quality of or!